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Frostys Virpio
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496
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:Why on earth are you not considering using all the bay mechanics in some really cool way?
Why not add a skill bonus to specific bay types on the industrials, and then add ORE, SHIP, MINERAL-BAY etc to the industrials?
The baytypes and their mechanics is really what could make T1 and later T2 industrials really interesting again..
(The types can be seen on the dev-ship the cockroach)
A few other hot topics or ideas..
Make compressed ORE able to compete in compression with current workarounds like the 450mm guns. Make Compressed or only go into ORE-BAY. This would make industrials an alternative to freighters.
Make drop destruction chance linked to containers. So container always "saves" all content, but is much harder to scan. So using no containers denies gankers the loot at a higher degree, but sacrifice the benefits from containers getting a proper capacity boost. Something like 25-50% bonus.
Make cans/containers drop by themeselves, so the secure ones could be linked to hacking skill.
Thus a true specialized freight would become a vital part of the game, in a more inspirering way then atm.
The difference between DRY and WET freight, and all the emergent gameplay to come from it, while still allowing "easy mode" usage.
Why would a hauler bother with all those different ships when he can buy a Orca/freighter and haul more in a single ship? Thats why there is no specialised bay. A 75K ore bay soulds cool till you understand it offer nothing over an Orca available under a month of training.
COmbat ship of different class have a reason to still be flown because they counter each other. Hauler have one job and it's the same from all calss of hauling ship. Take X from A to B. No matter what X is made of, if you want to carry more, you get a bigger ship.
There are things a battleship will never do like a frig do. An orca can do anything a T1 hauler can do and then some. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
497
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Posted - 2013.06.21 17:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: Why would a hauler bother with all those different ships when he can buy a Orca/freighter and haul more in a single ship? Thats why there is no specialised bay. A 75K ore bay soulds cool till you understand it offer nothing over an Orca available under a month of training.
COmbat ship of different class have a reason to still be flown because they counter each other. Hauler have one job and it's the same from all calss of hauling ship. Take X from A to B. No matter what X is made of, if you want to carry more, you get a bigger ship.
There are things a battleship will never do like a frig do. An orca can do anything a T1 hauler can do and then some.
Well the Rorqual and Orca are a problem all to themselves.. They need to really be integrated properly into the industrial role and balancing, and atm they are a terrible misbalanced part of the industry class. Primarily the Orca should be exceptional Booster and Mineral(Ore) low range shipping class, and the Rorq should be a "mini-station" with compression, and even refining, and long range RAW hauling. The reason you would want a huge range of variety on Industrials, as well as all other ships and game mechanics in EVE is to get away from the WoW optimizing and flavor of the month problem.. Sadly the last 4-5 years CCP have let the pvp community bend things a lot into the flavor of the month philosophy, hopefully the new direction will go back to the old complexity and lateral integration concepts.
What diversity? The ships are made to carry X amount of Y from A to B. The optimal way is either overtank to be sure you don't get ganked or overcarry to make less trips. If you remove the Orca possibilities for hauling, people won't make tens of runs in T1 haulers, they will buy a freighter and keep the T1 hauler as stepping stones toward the "real" haulers. You either make themabout equal so people can choose wich one they fly or you give them each a speciality and people buy freighter who can do all. Any amount of good, specialised or not you want to carry in a T1 will fit in a charon.
The only way to keep them revelant would eb to make them better at something than the current king of hauling. If you could carry more ore in a specialised ship than in a generic one, it would work but it has to be done at the upper level because of the current existance of generic 900K= M3 ships already in game. A dedicated ore hauler could have lets say a 1,5 million m3 ore bay. It would be better at it's job than a charon thus warranting it's own existance but this won't happen at the T1 level. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
497
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 17:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Altrue wrote:Caldari ships always have the less cargo capacity of their role, yet I heard that it was an industrial race  . You heard wrong. It's a militant corporatocracy race. That's why their haulers are the most tankable historically and "battle badgers" are a thing. If anything Gallente is the most "industrial".. the lore glorifies Gallente miners and their role in the Federation to support freedom and independence, and freedom means lots of free trade meaning more variety of haulers. Well, that's good then, because then obviously Gallente should get the "specialized" haulers for industry, e.g. one with an ore bay and one with a mineral bay. And there are plenty of spare Gallente hull designs that can be assigned to those roles.
And all of that would be useless since you can train for an Orca in under 20 days. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
497
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Frozentank Madullier wrote:Do you know how cool it would be if instead of having the Iteron II through IV you could simply purchase the level 1 and then several "addons" and then could adjust the ship on departure. Increasing the volume and mass with each level. Like a semi truck. And you could have additional addons available that when repackaged could fit inside the level 1. So let's say I needed to haul a bunch of ships in one direction, I could take off with an Iteron I with 4 addon modules inside. Fly to Jita, expand the ship into an Iteron V and then load it up.
The fact that only Gallente has it really isn't a problem. It's a tech 1 ship that only requires level 1 skill to fly. We're talking about less than 1 day of training.
Or we could keep all those stuff in line with the rest of the game and make the specialised hauler part of the T2 lineup since T2 is in every other type of ship the specialisation line where you get more "gimmicky" possibilities at a cost in other stuff on the ship. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
498
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alvar Kesh wrote:As an industrialist bitter vet, I can say that there is a lot of lost potential here. Haulers can be so much more as presented, and there are some very good examples in this thread how to make that. CSM member Ripart Teg for example. CPP would be an idiot not to listen to them.
As a side note: maybe not an experience small gang pvp-er is the best person for this rebalancing. Just saying.
All those specialisation things for different out of regular capacities should be in the T2 lineup where the specialised ships are and not in the T1 lineup where the generic ships are. It's like that in every single ship category. It's a hauler. It haul stuff. Lots of stuff in the same trip is better. Less in the same trip is worse.
Your cargo to tank to speed ratio is all dictated by what you put inside the hold and what you fit in the low slots.
Want more EHP? Go go bulkhead/DC.
Want more space? Cargo extender.
Not close enough to your liking yet? Play with the rigs too! |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
498
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 19:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I'm not making any judgements just yet, but it might be helpful to clarify the priorities a player has when choosing a T1 hauler.
1: Max cargo capacity
2: This is a tie between alignment time (for those who manually pilot) and speed (for those who fly AFK).
3: Warp speed
4: Tank (a distant last)
All controled by low slots/rigs wich mean we only really need 1 hauler/race and as many low slots as possible so anyone can fit thier hauler to his own exact specification. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
498
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Posted - 2013.06.21 19:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I'm not making any judgements just yet, but it might be helpful to clarify the priorities a player has when choosing a T1 hauler.
1: Max cargo capacity
2: This is a tie between alignment time (for those who manually pilot) and speed (for those who fly AFK).
3: Warp speed
4: Tank (a distant last) All controled by low slots/rigs wich mean we only really need 1 hauler/race and as many low slots as possible so anyone can fit thier hauler to his own exact specification. That would be one way to go I suppose, but I'm not in favor of it. I was merely quantifying the obvious, because it's easy to lose perspective in this. Obviously the number of low slots would have a direct bearing on how flexible the hauler will be and what it's max capabilities are.
Well make it 2 then. One on each race start more tanky and one more "hauly"?
That is not a real word right? |
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